I can’t believe after all these years you still have this thing of being above the explainer or internet anthropology, while thoroughly surviving off that type of material.
My question for you then is how much of your oeuvre, and for that matter this penchant you have for forecasting or commenting about ascendant right wing factions while posturing in such a way as to not soil yourself with the label even if your axioms match, is rooted in a desire to be seen? how much of it wasn’t powered by petty or superficial feeling? I think you’re best to level this type of rant criticism because you yourself know it well probably having felt these exact things.
My point, though, is the excess of category—of perpetual naming as a commodity—has wrought this apophenic digital environment you so detest. no one in the these industrial complexes do it “for the love of the game”—none of you do, and so even this rant is market posturing.
I’ve been totally jaded by your genre of commentariat; can’t read none of it sincerely.
you are news tacitly related to coastal scenes I’m connected to and came into clarity within the same network cluster of disaffection that brought us the vibe shift. purely utilitarian and I come into contact with your stuff when I can, amongst many other commentators, researchers, digital anthropologist and trend forecasters, because while it’s hard to engage much of this sincerely, it is a good lay of the memetic land. it’s nice to know what the next fancy is so as to avoid it; it’s part of reading the internet.
and one need not; realizing how much one wishes to be scene and being diligent with discernment is an everyday practice. if the implication here is that I wish to be scene by specifically you because I left a sincere comment under a piece you wrote 7 days ago after having maybe done this once, you’re mistaken. I was genuinely curious about what fuels a post like this, especially having come into contact with this same rhetorical frame constantly as a means of catharsis but no real change occurs. the churn keeps churning. apophenia abound.
Re this post in particular, the truth is I’m pregnant and grumpy and tired and was annoyed after reading the 10th or 11th “think piece” about l’affair Fuentes.
Of course, I keep writing because I DO actually do it for love of the game — that’s why my tone shifts, my beat changes slightly, I work in many different formats. If there was no love here, another thing I think you know is who I’d more closely resemble.
As far as the “Fuentes is/is not an OP” thing goes: why not both? It seems like if there are factions that want to do effective OPs (which we know to be true—J6 for example), they will be aware of how the attention economy and mass media works. I mean, such are the basic tenants of advertising!
I’m not saying that I fully agree with the position below, but the argument should be addressed. I think it’s a worthy subject for a historian (like yourself, perhaps) to investigate:
“Everything’s an industry now—even commentary on commodification is commodified. Commentary on commentary on commentary on commentary.” Yes!! When will it end?!? (I presume never)
I mean... you just wrote an article a few weeks ago where you spent the entire time watering down the very obvious fascist administration just to mildly critique someone. You're very much a part of this cycle of garbage for clicks thing.
Yeah, totally—Kamar’s not wrong. The discourse loop gets so warped that even normal criticism starts looking like content treadmill stuff. But honestly, that’s exactly why this whole argument feels tiny compared to the crisis nobody here will name out loud: McDonald’s killed the McRib and we just stood there like obedient NPCs.
If we’re going to talk about “cycles of garbage,” maybe start with the corporate psychopathy of turning a national treasure into a seasonal hallucination. Bring back the McRib and half these online fights evaporate overnight.
In the same way that Allan Bloom noted 80s teenspeek about authenticity was recycling in cod consumerist form unknowingly Nietzschean memes, today the eternal recurrence of the same has been transformed into a pure feedback loop of ever more cyclical and flanderised discourses on the same topics over and over
Am going to watch the doc you recommended tomorrow
Surprised that apparently even now there is no major print book on BookTok as a phenomenon, or at least, none in Waterstones's corporate systems at their flagship branch
There has got to be more innovative stuff even IN the teen spaces today
It is my strong hope that this low brow neo racism (identity politics of the right wing, even more monomanical at this point than the left version at peak Floyd 2020) goes away soon due to boredom, but people can get acculturated to the same stuff day in and day out; the art-left made identitarianism their wheelhouse for 2-3 entire decades and most consoomers aren't even that demanding
Anyway if we are going to be in Sequel Land your outright nostalgia for circa 2007 pre recession emo mall stuff is endlessly more aesthetically appealing than the current remake cultures on X which seem dishonest as well as venomous
You’re cursed with being a seer (many such cases) in the present moment, so of course you’re going to be sick to death of everything long before it’s accepted throughout society as a basic truth
I’ve had 2 thought - feelings, (thoufeels?) fuck this whole place, and a phase shift is coming because we couldn’t possibly just repeat all the same shit, right?
Watching Fuentes go mainstream was a signal. We’ve scrapped the bottom and now we’ve hit bedrock.
The only thing left to happen is something unpredictable.
New words forced into our lexicon will come from AI and Religion. Does a computer have a soul?
I don’t think the fundamental premise of the rant is correct, though it’s entertaining. I’d say it’s been about 50-50 ideology and attention economics as long as I can remember. There are genuinely ideological actors all over the place. Without them, this would all have vanished in a shriek of void energy in 1997.
If you start attributing say Stephen Miller’s behavior or Yarvin’s to attention economy dynamics (which it might be at some Freudian level), it becomes a bit vacuous. I prefer to reserve it for relatively conscious and deliberate types. A key tell is A/B testing. That tells you they don’t care about A or B per se, only about which one works better. They’re doing the equivalent of grooming or boundary testing with a mass audience. Ideologues don’t A/B test ends, only means.
I disagree — I don’t think it’s a one size fits all situation of course or the only factor. But Yarvin in particular is a good example of someone where ideology is secondary to behavior and social motivations. I think Rufo’s critique of him was decent
Perhaps now post-arrival as maga intellectual with nothing left to say but a reputation to harvest. As moldbug ~2009 he was clearly deep into his ideological vision quest. No way that was simple attention economy engagement farming. He was processing at a deeper level. Not in particularly skilled or interesting ways, but I wouldn’t accuse him of pure attention grifting at least.
And Rufo would of course primarily see the current state. He is definitely a textbook example of your model. Unlike Moldbug, there is no there there behind Rufo. The shallow grift and tactical virtuosity is all there is.
I don't share most of Rufo's political objectives but he can't be blamed for just being a political activist, it's literally his job and he is good at it; those doing it for free or following him have less excuse
Well of course— Moldbug is a classic Internet nerd & I mean that with no disrespect to the category! I discovered him quite early and though I wasn’t a fan i can appreciate who he was in his original habitats. I’m speaking of the way things have been in the last 10 years, and only one dimension of it. But not forever + always + with totality.
So that's not just me then, @defaultfriend ? Makes me feel a little better. I thought it might have been if the user is not participating in the thread/article comments, then it wouldn't work, but you're right there, so...
It's a good idea to just take a break, now and then, from the news, the opinions, the whole kit and caboodle, and give one's brain and nervous system a needed rest. Katherine, you are so plugged in on the internet beat (which is why I read you), but you can't let it eat you alive. Enjoy your down time.
I can’t believe after all these years you still have this thing of being above the explainer or internet anthropology, while thoroughly surviving off that type of material.
My question for you then is how much of your oeuvre, and for that matter this penchant you have for forecasting or commenting about ascendant right wing factions while posturing in such a way as to not soil yourself with the label even if your axioms match, is rooted in a desire to be seen? how much of it wasn’t powered by petty or superficial feeling? I think you’re best to level this type of rant criticism because you yourself know it well probably having felt these exact things.
My point, though, is the excess of category—of perpetual naming as a commodity—has wrought this apophenic digital environment you so detest. no one in the these industrial complexes do it “for the love of the game”—none of you do, and so even this rant is market posturing.
I’ve been totally jaded by your genre of commentariat; can’t read none of it sincerely.
If you’ve been jaded, why follow me & leave comments like this, under multiple accounts, for years?
you are news tacitly related to coastal scenes I’m connected to and came into clarity within the same network cluster of disaffection that brought us the vibe shift. purely utilitarian and I come into contact with your stuff when I can, amongst many other commentators, researchers, digital anthropologist and trend forecasters, because while it’s hard to engage much of this sincerely, it is a good lay of the memetic land. it’s nice to know what the next fancy is so as to avoid it; it’s part of reading the internet.
and one need not; realizing how much one wishes to be scene and being diligent with discernment is an everyday practice. if the implication here is that I wish to be scene by specifically you because I left a sincere comment under a piece you wrote 7 days ago after having maybe done this once, you’re mistaken. I was genuinely curious about what fuels a post like this, especially having come into contact with this same rhetorical frame constantly as a means of catharsis but no real change occurs. the churn keeps churning. apophenia abound.
I mean, I think you know what I’m referring to.
Re this post in particular, the truth is I’m pregnant and grumpy and tired and was annoyed after reading the 10th or 11th “think piece” about l’affair Fuentes.
Of course, I keep writing because I DO actually do it for love of the game — that’s why my tone shifts, my beat changes slightly, I work in many different formats. If there was no love here, another thing I think you know is who I’d more closely resemble.
Putting aside any misreadings of this piece or its intentions. How badly do YOU want to be seen? By me, by others? One has to wonder.
As far as the “Fuentes is/is not an OP” thing goes: why not both? It seems like if there are factions that want to do effective OPs (which we know to be true—J6 for example), they will be aware of how the attention economy and mass media works. I mean, such are the basic tenants of advertising!
I’m not saying that I fully agree with the position below, but the argument should be addressed. I think it’s a worthy subject for a historian (like yourself, perhaps) to investigate:
https://x.com/read_acted/status/1990324112880029777?s=46
God damn. Subscribed.
“Everything’s an industry now—even commentary on commodification is commodified. Commentary on commentary on commentary on commentary.” Yes!! When will it end?!? (I presume never)
I mean... you just wrote an article a few weeks ago where you spent the entire time watering down the very obvious fascist administration just to mildly critique someone. You're very much a part of this cycle of garbage for clicks thing.
I did no such thing? I wrote about why I believed a group of specific people employed certain language in a group chat.
Yeah, totally—Kamar’s not wrong. The discourse loop gets so warped that even normal criticism starts looking like content treadmill stuff. But honestly, that’s exactly why this whole argument feels tiny compared to the crisis nobody here will name out loud: McDonald’s killed the McRib and we just stood there like obedient NPCs.
If we’re going to talk about “cycles of garbage,” maybe start with the corporate psychopathy of turning a national treasure into a seasonal hallucination. Bring back the McRib and half these online fights evaporate overnight.
McRib's always freaked me out.
In the same way that Allan Bloom noted 80s teenspeek about authenticity was recycling in cod consumerist form unknowingly Nietzschean memes, today the eternal recurrence of the same has been transformed into a pure feedback loop of ever more cyclical and flanderised discourses on the same topics over and over
Am going to watch the doc you recommended tomorrow
Surprised that apparently even now there is no major print book on BookTok as a phenomenon, or at least, none in Waterstones's corporate systems at their flagship branch
There has got to be more innovative stuff even IN the teen spaces today
It is my strong hope that this low brow neo racism (identity politics of the right wing, even more monomanical at this point than the left version at peak Floyd 2020) goes away soon due to boredom, but people can get acculturated to the same stuff day in and day out; the art-left made identitarianism their wheelhouse for 2-3 entire decades and most consoomers aren't even that demanding
Anyway if we are going to be in Sequel Land your outright nostalgia for circa 2007 pre recession emo mall stuff is endlessly more aesthetically appealing than the current remake cultures on X which seem dishonest as well as venomous
You’re cursed with being a seer (many such cases) in the present moment, so of course you’re going to be sick to death of everything long before it’s accepted throughout society as a basic truth
I’ve had 2 thought - feelings, (thoufeels?) fuck this whole place, and a phase shift is coming because we couldn’t possibly just repeat all the same shit, right?
Watching Fuentes go mainstream was a signal. We’ve scrapped the bottom and now we’ve hit bedrock.
The only thing left to happen is something unpredictable.
New words forced into our lexicon will come from AI and Religion. Does a computer have a soul?
We’ve run out of real villains.
I’m going to go the way of dolphin 🐬
I don’t think the fundamental premise of the rant is correct, though it’s entertaining. I’d say it’s been about 50-50 ideology and attention economics as long as I can remember. There are genuinely ideological actors all over the place. Without them, this would all have vanished in a shriek of void energy in 1997.
I think people don't realize how much of their beliefs are steered by a desire for attention
If you start attributing say Stephen Miller’s behavior or Yarvin’s to attention economy dynamics (which it might be at some Freudian level), it becomes a bit vacuous. I prefer to reserve it for relatively conscious and deliberate types. A key tell is A/B testing. That tells you they don’t care about A or B per se, only about which one works better. They’re doing the equivalent of grooming or boundary testing with a mass audience. Ideologues don’t A/B test ends, only means.
I disagree — I don’t think it’s a one size fits all situation of course or the only factor. But Yarvin in particular is a good example of someone where ideology is secondary to behavior and social motivations. I think Rufo’s critique of him was decent
Perhaps now post-arrival as maga intellectual with nothing left to say but a reputation to harvest. As moldbug ~2009 he was clearly deep into his ideological vision quest. No way that was simple attention economy engagement farming. He was processing at a deeper level. Not in particularly skilled or interesting ways, but I wouldn’t accuse him of pure attention grifting at least.
And Rufo would of course primarily see the current state. He is definitely a textbook example of your model. Unlike Moldbug, there is no there there behind Rufo. The shallow grift and tactical virtuosity is all there is.
I don't share most of Rufo's political objectives but he can't be blamed for just being a political activist, it's literally his job and he is good at it; those doing it for free or following him have less excuse
Well of course— Moldbug is a classic Internet nerd & I mean that with no disrespect to the category! I discovered him quite early and though I wasn’t a fan i can appreciate who he was in his original habitats. I’m speaking of the way things have been in the last 10 years, and only one dimension of it. But not forever + always + with totality.
Omg yes default self care! 💁🏼♀️👏👏👏
I love it when you write your truth and make me look up words and things 🐬
SHOULD I PIVOT TO SPIRITUALITY.
Yes (especially if it sells) and all the other parts of Katherine Dee will come along with it and shine through anyway 🐬
full throated ‘not me!’ from me.
hahah, the cherry on top was definitely ending with "Bro dared me to write a rant, so I did, there."
Not wrong, though.
I wish I knew how to 'tag' someone in the comments
So that's not just me then, @defaultfriend ? Makes me feel a little better. I thought it might have been if the user is not participating in the thread/article comments, then it wouldn't work, but you're right there, so...
You are not wrong! 😎👍🍻
I believe I wrote the same thing last time this topic came up!
Yes, I get frustrated by this often
It's a good idea to just take a break, now and then, from the news, the opinions, the whole kit and caboodle, and give one's brain and nervous system a needed rest. Katherine, you are so plugged in on the internet beat (which is why I read you), but you can't let it eat you alive. Enjoy your down time.
I deleted my flagship twitter account the night before you posted this...so yea
it's all so tiresome
This is why I'm not on sm, YouTube, and I only read you and Mary Harrington on Substack. I just exhausted
yeah, I'm at the end of my rope and I wonder if I'd be better off nuking everything but Substack
I'm happier. BTW I think I missed eurythmy last week, right?
Yes! I had to miss it too sadly